CHURCH FOOD FIGHTS: WHEN PERSONAL CONVICTIONS OUTWEIGH BIBLICAL TRUTH

Posted: December 10, 2016 in HOT TOPICS
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animal-house-food-fight

 

Personal convictions are NOT the same as Biblical truth. Yet Christians have been twisting personal convictions and Biblical truths for centuries in an attempt to lead people back to law, and that’s what it truly is when you examine the most common arguments concerning personal liberty versus conviction. From going to movies, listening to secular music, or participating in sports or going to a game, (not to mention celebrating Christmas or Halloween), these issues have managed to burden the church with untold heartache all because someone, somewhere used personal conviction instead of biblical truth to create yet another doctrine that was not based on grace and personal liberty, but law in an effort to control the people in how they desired people to live.This always leads to Legalism.
 
So what exactly is a personal conviction?
A personal conviction is a viewpoint relating to conduct or behavior based on social upbringing and family history. This view says “I can’t do that because I might stumble.”, or it might say, “I don’t believe God wants us to participate in that, so I don’t and neither should you.“. Either way, whatever the argument or defense suggests, the end result remains the same, it’s a conviction not based on actual biblical truth, but based entirely upon past experiences, behavior or upbringing. To be clear, there are indeed conduct and behavioral attitudes found throughout the word to which God desires us to walk, but when we are discussing disputable issues relating to personal liberty, then that’s when things become an issue, and when we need to understand that sometimes what we have held onto as doctrine, is nothing more but church tradition that God never intended for us to be bound by.
 
I was raised in the Pentecostal holiness movement. At an early age I was taught by the church for years that Christians did not go to movies, they did not dance, they did not listen to secular music, nor did they adorn themselves with gold or jewelry, nor did its women wear anything commonly associated with the opposite sex, this meant that women could not wear pants for it was something made for men, thus, it was a sin. The same with the famous hair doctrine that Pentecostals created as another means to control its people. The idea, for both men and women, was that women should have long hair (even though other societies around the world have their own cultural beliefs) when the truth is, we had many reasons why we shouldn’t, yet they were never based on the word of God, but a distorted view based from the law.
Paul warned the early churches throughout his writings not to go back to ritual and law, and it was for a reason, it could not be maintained. There was a reason why the law was rigid and strict, because man, by himself on his own efforts could not satisfy the law, thus, the sacrifice was needed. Today, that sacrifice was fulfilled through Christ. He satisfied the law and all its requirements where we could not, this gave us the gift of Grace which is what we are in today. Yet there are those who once again would desire man, as well as the church, to go back unto law and all of its rigidness under the Mosaic system, and be controlled by those who would yield its full weight and measure. The result? Spiritual ruin. 
When we are referring to Disputable Issues, we speak of those issues relating to personal views, not on the word, but on issues which have, and continue to divide the church today. Disputable Issues (or matters) are what Paul outlined in Romans chapter 14. Here we see what Paul wanted us to avoid at all costs – disputings which lead to strife, and worse – bondage to the law. Throughout chapter 14 of Romans, Paul gives us, the church, a clear resolve when it comes to things which the Bible is silent on, and that is this, liberty. Romans 14:5 “One man esteems one day above another: another esteems every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” Here Paul is making it clear that one man might see the need for Sabbath, while the other does not, but both must adhere to this one rule, to be fully persuaded in his own mind to what God would have him do, but never should he impose his own beliefs upon another believer, for in doing so, they have created a new law, a new doctrine and a new bondage to which there is no law. Again, let me be clear, Paul is never speaking about participating in immoral acts, or those things or issues which are clearly condemned in scripture, it’s simply referring to issues which have not been dealt with in scripture.
Still, many in the days of the early church were fighting among themselves about what was right and what was wrong to do or go as it related to personal conduct or behavior. The early church found itself divided over food offered to idols that was being then sold on the market that Christians could not decide if it [meat] could be bought and then eaten. Paul settled the issue in the same chapter (14:3) by saying “Let not him who eats despise him who eats not….” The answer to the problem concerning a dispute was found simply in Christ and the cross – personal liberty.
The other issue conflicting the church in its first establishment was the celebrating of pagan holidays. How interesting that while Paul equally gave his instruction to the early church on these matters, yet nearly 2,000 years later, the church has found itself once again arguing over matters, such as Christmas or other festivities, to which there are no law in the new covenant. Again, one would literally have to go back to the old covenant to make an argument for why the church should abstain from anything relating to the eating of certain foods, or celebrating or participating in pagan holidays under the new covenant. This is again, a disputable issue that Paul dealt with by stating that there is no law under the new covenant for any believer in Christ to abstain from such, simply because we are now under Grace.
Grace is not a license to sin, far from it, it’s a call that demands holiness. Yet when we examine personal convictions as it relates to ones own personal growth, we will begin to see that when we allow the Holy Spirit to be our guide, instructing us in all things relative to ones own conduct, then we will be able to do, or not to do things which may or may not be wrong spiritually, but participate or not based on a more maturer level of intimacy that can only be done by placing our faith into what Christ did on the cross, and then allowing him to teach us accordingly. Paul reminds us of two indisputable facts for the believer that should be our guide as it relates to personal convictions:
1) We shall all stand before Christ at the judgment and give an answer for our actions on this earth. (Romans 14: 10)
2) We should desire to be at peace with our brothers and sisters no matter what level they or we are on, but to live in peace and love one another. (Romans 14:19)
From my desk in China,
Christopher
christopher152@gmail.com
Comments
  1. ajc says:

    I don’t go to church. The last group I went to believed (because the pastor told them) that Christ was coming again to Jerusalem and animal sacrifice was to be started up again. We would then drive to Jerusalem to worship him. The church before that – the pastor wanted a 7,000 square foot home and a really expensive car. He already lived in luxury and most of the people in the pews couldn’t even pay their bills. His messages were confusing and were kind of faith as a force oriented. Every church I have attended for the last 30 years has been republican. Democrats were evil and the sitting democrat president was always the anti Christ. The people on the whole were cheap and unhappy. They wouldn’t give a homeless person a cheap meal. Church money (tithes) was used for personal projects and friends that benefitted them personally (the pastor). Then of course there are the t.v. preachers. Same. I unfortunately found and read Watchman Nee, Kenneth Hagin and Derek Prince in the church bookstores. I now stay out of church even tho I thought it would be nice to have fellowship. Years ago when I found out a person was a believer, I was so happy that we had this in common. Now all there is, is controversy and argument and hatred. Especially hatred. I have had 3 (yes really 3) “pastors” tell me I was not a Christian because I was not voting for Trump. That Hillary was evil. That Trump’s wife’s porn pictures were pretty. Why did all 3 of them use the exact word pretty. Were they told that. So much for modesty. This fake Christian thing is bad. I now stay out of Christian book stores. I get my bibles at goodwill. The world is a bad and hard place and the churches are an extension of Satan’s kingdom – only disguised by Christian jargon. ajc

    • clintonalexander2016 says:

      I did not vote for trump I voted for hillary I believe hillary but gop stole election

    • clintonalexander2016 says:

      I believe hillary won not trump I believe gop stole election and theres overwhelming evidence of fraud on gop side and russian gov meddling in usa election and trump cconspiracing with russia which is impeachable as for church i understand I dont go to church tho i do listen to swaggarts from time to time but i dont go to church cuz im tired of being hurt

    • clintonalexander2016 says:

      Cia said russia was meddling in elections i dont care if believers dont like it i dont believe God put trump in

  2. Mary Dickens says:

    Why do people make everything about Trump? He is the president come January 20th, 2017. We need to move on and start serving our Lord and let the world take care of itself.

    • ajc says:

      I think what people find so shocking is this: The pew sitters voted and wanted Trump. These are people who are supposed to judge people by their fruit and character. These are the evangelicals and church people. They voted in and wanted a bully who has been caught in so many lies, does not pay taxes, commits adultery and laughs and brags about it, hangs out with Putin etc. His favorite word is the F word. He rates women by their looks. Come on, this is strange. People in non Christian countries want people like Trump. He is much like the rulers and dictators of old. He is putting or trying to put people like Petraeus in his cabinet (adulterer and gave away America’s secrets to his mistress). It is difficult to get a handle on this one. ajc

  3. ajc says:

    It is because the pew sitters (church people) have gone boldly where no pew sitter has gone before (star Trek). Yes, they have said democrats were evil, deceived and yes they have said that every democrat president was the antichrist and yes they have said that if you vote democrat you aren’t a Christian but all of that is topped by them voting in Trump. ajc

  4. Judy says:

    Neither Donald Trump nor Hillary Clinton, Republican Party nor Democratic Party have any real connection to Jesus Christ.
    I voted for neither of them ( but I did vote) because I could not stand before God and justify a vote for either of these people!

    But to assume that the election was stolen, hacked, blah blah whatever, is silly. Our God is ALWAYS in control, but He allows free choice and the people spoke loud and clear that they wanted a philandering, foul mouthed, businessman to lead the country. Just as they spoke loud and clear they wanted a liberal, inexperienced nobody 8 years previous just because he would be the first black president.

    I’m not sure what all this comment line has to do with the original blog on the law, and legalism in the modern church, but move on people. Pray for our president-elect, pray for our country to stop the bickering and hatred associated with this election and just serve God where He plants you!

    • ajc says:

      Obama was one of the best presidents we have ever had. Smart, decent wife, decent marriage and did good for the poor and middle class. Most presidents are nobodies when they first get into office but I think he was and is a somebody because of all his good qualities. I think Michelle is a lucky woman. A Being intelligent and decent seems pretty good qualities to me. ajc

  5. ajc says:

    I am leaving comments on some the articles you have written. I like a lot of your stuff but here goes. Angels don’t have wings as portrayed in a picture I think you posted representing one of your visions. They say Ronald Reagan was a nice guy but was already showing signs of dementia in the white house. His wife kept their children away from him and their childhood was less than great because of this and other stuff. Why he let her do that, who knows. It scarred them and they were lonely as children. I am less concerned about gay people making it legal than I am about filthy hetro magazines, clubs, movies, strip clubs and all the other stuff women have to put up with. The world has always been bad, really wicked and bad. Yes, America is getting worse in so many ways. The stuff you have to view as news just so you can e mail a friend. This is why believers need to help other believers keep the faith. That is not happening. I may try and just stay off of all sites as it is becoming a distraction and makes you lose your peace. Have you forgotten how wicked the world and religion was in biblical times. Temple prostitutes (I guess their version of the strip clubs). And Why trash Obama. He was a good president. He was president of all of America. Church people hate him strictly because he was a democrat and unfortunately sometimes because of his color. He was smart and normal. How many people in the church and on fake Christian t.v. can you say that about. The world is the world – it’s not about communism, socialism and every other ism – it is as Christ said the WORLD run by a fallen angel. ajc

    • Judy says:

      Ajc… I’m not going to start a response war with you, it’s not wise, prudent or Christlike. I will say I have a very different opinion of Obama than you do. He WAS elected because he is black. That’s just fact. I have many black friends who voted for him simply because of that reason, the first time. Most of the Christian blacks I’m associated with did not vote for him the second term because they saw how badly he has devided this country by promoting lawlessness in the black community. I supported G Bush for president, but I honestly looked at his shortcomings in office and could admit that he made mistakes. Obama fans don’t seem to be able to separate his qualities from his failings, possibly because the mainstream media refuses to report his failings.
      I will say honestly I am one of those people who fail to understand how one can call themselves Christian and support a candidate or party that condones the mass murder of over 50 million unborn American babies. Please SOMEONE tell me where in scripture it says that it’s okay to murder your own offspring??
      And how do you call a President who supports abortion decent, moral, a good president, etc.?
      You are incorrect for saying people don’t like him because he is black, people don’t like him because he promotes the false religion of Islam, racial tensions, same sex “marriages”, abortion and a host of other issues involving corruption and outright lies. I don’t “hate” Obama but I believe he has lead this country further into corruption, immorality, and Godlessness.

      • ajc says:

        This country was already corrupt and immoral. No republican president has done anything about the abortion issue after they got into office. I don’t know anyone who has had an abortion. It was not Obama that started the abortion thing as it has been going on thru many president’s terms. I know many pew sitters that thought that having a black president was bad strictly because of him being black. You know blacks that voted for Obama because he was black – well there are also whites who did not vote for him strictly because of his color. You need to take on the people who are actually having the abortions. Go tell them they are murdering their own children. People want abortion in this country. It is terrible. Find some church people that will take in these unwanted children and maybe the number of abortions will go down. Tell men to stop running off and leaving desperate women pregnant by them. So I guess you didn’t vote this year. I did. I think you are running on a false premise – that countries are either Christian or not Christian. It is the individual who follows Christ and is not of the world. America is of the world. Look at Christ’s time. Believers in but separated from the world. If you are looking for the type of person you call a Christian to become president – you might have a long wait. He is allowing gays to get married because they are Americans and want the right to be married. Whether they are legally married or not does not change their lifestyle. They are gay whether they are married or not. Get on your band wagon about adultery and divorce. (Hagee, Arthur Blessit, Jim Baker etc.) Look up and read FLEE FROM BABYLON Why many evangelicals hate democrats http://fleebabylon.wordpress.com/2012/09/05 sept. 5, 2012 The person writing is a republican and writes a good article No it’s not o.k. to kill your babies in the womb, it’s not o.k. to commit adultery on your wife just because you can, it’s not o.k. to want war but not go yourself or send your own children because you are sending poor people’s children. I don’t want to argue either but I have responded because I know you are basically just a republican who is still upset that a democrat got in. I don’t mean that in a derogatory way, I just know from experience that is what it is. ajc read the article it is really intelligent and good If you were a black in the 40’s and 50’s, would you have considered this a Christian nation and really haven’t you always before this election voted republican

      • ajc says:

        Judy I was just rereading your comment as I consume my slice of pizza and how is it you know that Obama was elected because he is black. You say that is a fact. How do you know it is really a fact. Your black friends voted for him the first time because he is black? Are they believers. I’m thinking they voted for him because he was and is intelligent How did he cause lawlessness in a community that was already having that problem due to poverty, no jobs and little hope. Mainstream media is only an enemy to those who are angry that they can’t control what it says. All media are liars????? No, the anger towards the media is strictly from the people who want to control it for their benefit. A dangerous thing. Our free media is the main thing that makes us different from countries like China, North Korea and all the rest. The media is just like the rest of us, Americans doing their job. Except of course, the national enquirer. I always wondered why they always trashed the Clintons and praised Trump. Now we find out the owner of that trashy magazine was and is a trump supporter. Probably a republican. I don’t think anyone condones abortion but Americans want it for whatever reason. Sad. Very sad. And really what has any republican president done to halt abortion after they got in office. ajc Just musing.

      • Judy says:

        You asked so I’ll answer. My black friends ARE believers, and they voted because they wanted to see the first black president who promised hope and change to America. The change they got was not what they expected at all. Lawlessness has been the center of this administration. We have seen racial tensions increase under a president who has promoted an entitlement mentality to the black community. He and his AG created an environment in Ferguson that condoned rioting and violence against their own community because a white cop killed a black thug who was attempting to kill him. BO and the AG didn’t tell the community to stand down and wait for the investigation, which proved the innocence of the policeman and whose life has been permanently turned upside down, but instead condemned police in general. This has led to a dramatic increase in police being murdered. My black friends recognized that his actions were intensifying the racial divide in this country and setting the black communities further into turmoil.
        He refuses to call terrorism what it really is. He blames ANYTHING and EVERYTHING on others instead of taking responsibility himself for his own actions. Congress has had to investigate one thing after another, the IRS, the FBI, the LIES surrounding the State Department and Hillary Clintons horrendous leadership while Sec of State. Her lies around the Bengazi fiasco, her unsecured Internet server, the Clinton Foundation, and on and on.
        As far as the media, I totally agree free media is crucial. Unfortunately mainstream media in this country is far from that. They report what they want to promote. They are so liberal and biased they have no intention to say anything negative unless they absolutely are forced into being truthful. There is no better example of their bias than election night reporting. Channel after channel refused to call the election for Trump and acted like they were in mourning at the thought he actually won. They had done everything they could to promote HRC, even giving her questions in advance of the debates they were hosting. So many people in this country aren’t even aware of all the deception they are fed because all they listen to is mainstream, and it is seriously flawed!
        As far as your repeatedly asking what Republican presidents have done about abortion, again I will answer. Presidents themselves are limited in what they can do as the Supreme Court has ruled it constitutional to abort innocent children. All they can do is to promote laws that limit abortion and place conservative judges on the SC that will interrupt the laws according to the constitution instead of their bias or agendas.
        Clearly you and I are not going to agree on this so this is my final response to you.
        You will stand before the Lord just as I will and have to explain your stand to Him. My conscience will be clear that I have spoken out and tried to protect the most innocent of life from being murdered.
        Reading my Bible it is clear that from the Chronicles and Kings that God holds a nation responsible according to its leadership. A president who supports murdering unborn and same sex unions leads the country against God.
        Like I said, I didn’t vote for HRC or DJT, only time will tell what kind of president he will be, but he couldn’t be any worse than BHO in my humble opinion.

    • Judy says:

      You make a lot of assumptions in your reply. Incorrectly I might add. Yes, I did vote, as I said in my first comment. But not for either of these candidates as I couldn’t vote for them in good conscience.
      I, unlike you, DO know women who have aborted children and support our local crisis pregnancy center. It’s a cop out to blame abortion on the lack of people taking in children for adoption. I know many who would love to adopt babies. And I myself was in a crisis pregnancy at age 16. I didn’t ever consider murder as an option and went on to marry and raise our daughter. It was a CHOICE to do what was morally right and to build a marriage together that has lasted over 45 years. Not a perfect marriage, but a committed one.
      Furthermore, I am not simply a republican. I vote independant. I am including just one example of why I have no respect for our current president and his administration.

      http://www.tdtalliance.com/2016/12/war-on-christmas-obama-orders-ban-on.html?m=1

      No president in our history has done more to tear down Christian beliefs or personally protected religious rights than BHO.
      I have written my final response to you. Your responses have been to make personal assumptions on my beliefs, something you know nothing about, instead of the conversation about the previous posts.
      I am still waiting for scripture that reaffirms voting for leaders that condone murdering the unborn. And for that matter, there are Democrats who are pro-life, which is a bit of an oxymoron considering their platform supports abortion and has REMOVED God from said platform,

      • Judy says:

        FYI, my son is a Marine who was serving in Okinawa during 9-11. So again your assumptions about me supporting war ( a slam on Republicans I presume) but not going myself or sending “poor people’s” children is false.

  6. Anonymous says:

    No, the slam was on presidents that are big on war but nobody in their immediate family serve. Yes, I do have Trump in mind. I do not know anyone personally who has had an abortion. What did Bush do to stop abortions? Anything? I think abortions are horrible but I can’t stop people from having them. I thank God I never had one. Really Judy, what president has ever done anything (any of them) to stop abortions and in reality, how could they stop them. If you are independent, then how did you vote for Bush? If you railed against all the other presidents who did nothing to end abortions, your dislike for Obama for the reasons you said might seem more reasonable. You are not going to find scriptures saying that abortion isn’t wrong but you are also not going to find scriptures saying that our elections are Christian. I don’t know the faith of the people I vote but I do look at their words and lifestyle. Obama is smart, came from a hard background, has a nice wife, has a seemingly good marriage. He is normal. ajc

  7. ajc says:

    p.s. the church people were able to vote Trump in so how come they can’t stop abortions. I think my republican pastor got an abortion for his girlfriend after he was caught in an affair. He was the pastor of a very large republican church.

  8. ajc says:

    Obama too has a long and decent marriage as you have. Will probably last as long as yours. Don’t think Michelle Obama has ever had an abortion. I like and respect him and you don’t. Let’s drop it. I imagine our comments are boring others. I have to say, your disliking Obama, a family man who is smart and decent just doesn’t make sense. But let’s just let it go. I’m thinking , of all your talk of values etc., it couldn’t have been Bush Jr. you voted for. ajc

    • Judy says:

      Presidents cannot stop abortion because they don’t make laws. The congress makes laws, presidents can only place Supreme Court justices in place that are pro life. That will be the only real recourse to reversing Roe vs Wade and stopping abortion. No Democratic president will take that path..ever.

      Apparently you have never read either of Obama’s books or looked at his past. He was raised by communist grandparents and a Muslim stepfather. He had close ties to communist Frank Marshall Davis and was in the “church” that was pastored by Jeremiah Wright. He past was littered by corrupt Chicago politics. Yes, his family seems to be close and we see no outward signs of trouble, but that doesn’t alter the fact that our country is more divided than ever, and that there is more corruption in the DC sewer than ever.

      Being independant doesn’t stop someone from voting Republican or Democrat. It leaves one open to whatever candidate appeals to them as best. I didn’t vote for either Obama or Romney 4 years ago either. Again I let my Christian convictions guide my decisions, not party affiliation or popular theory. Scripture is my guide.

      • ajc says:

        ok let’s let congress stop abortions and no I haven’t read any of his books or books about him I have a feeling that many of the books written about him are written by republicans or people who just do not like Obama. These exposes are usually mostly innuendos and facts that are not or can’t be substantiated. And we all know who is the father of this type of stuff. Remember what the jewish rulers said about the apostles and The Christ to instigate violence against them. Same type of stuff. It was said to darken people’s minds and plant stuff in their mind to turn them against Jesus. My last group was convinced that Obama tried to get a law passed so all people would be chipped but was stopped by congress. They really believed this. The group leader told them to vote for Trump because character didn’t matter, we weren’t voting in a savior. He would have voted in Hitler if he was running as a republican and told the group it didn’t matter what he did to the jews – hitler was just upset over the way the jews treated Christ. Seriously. If people in the group or my previous church found out I voted democrat, they would not even speak to me. One of them called Obama the n word. The things I heard them say before I told them I was a democrat. I will not go back to this strange false church system. Obama’s mother married a loser. Who knows why. I’m sure she ended up regretting it. But his mother’s people raised him and seemed to do a pretty good job. I have never heard they were communist. You might want to look up Bush jr. and abortions. When asked, he never denied his dad paid for one for his girlfriend. I personally don’t care. I am just glad God has looked after my family.

  9. ajc says:

    Judy How can you blame all that on one man. How do you have any black friends after what you say and how you feel about them (it is apparent in your rant). Abortion isn’t the only terrible sin and once again I don’t believe Michelle or Hillary have had abortions. I know I haven’t and I do not even know anyone who has. Abortion has been around a long time. Not just in America but thru out history. The temple prostitutes had one illegitimate child after another. They were deceived and abused. Obama has always talked peace and understanding. You just don’t like blacks. Just forget it. Don’t believe a word you say is sincere. ajc There has always been rioting and discord, under many presidents.

  10. ajc says:

    The world is a terrible place for sure. You don’t need to swear, have an abortion or take part in any of the terrible things that go on but you cannot legislate morality. America is a country full of people who must see things differently than you because they (the churches) just voted in a bully who molested women, loves adultery, lies, rips off his employees and has an unusually foul mouth. These are the church people who always bring up the abortion issue as a rally cry before election but then do absolutely nothing to stop it after the voting is over. The only people I know who have had an abortion is my previous republican pastor. Adultery doesn’t seem to bother them. Molesting women doesn’t seem to bother them. Not paying your taxes doesn’t seem to bother them. How do I know this. Because they voted for Trump and call him a take charge kind of guy. I have never heard Obama use the f word, I don’t believe he has committed adultery. He pays his taxes. There has always been rioting through every presidency. You are unfair and your mind is darkened. The people who “use” the abortion issue are some of the most screwed up and immoral people there is. All the phony t.v. Christians. Look at their life styles. Money from the poor to keep them in their mansions and fancy cars. Millions in their bank accounts but still begging for more on every show. Look up scripture about how terrible these sins are. Always the abortion thing while their sins aren’t mentioned. You don’t have any legitimate reasons to dislike Obama the way you do. ajc

  11. ajc says:

    You gave yourself away by using the word liberal. There isn’t such a thing as a liberal. There is democrat and there is republican. I am a registered democrat. I am not liberal. I don’t think people who vote against a man who is an adulterer, liar, and molester of women can be called liberal. It was the republicans who voted this monster in. Oh, and the KKK.

    • Judy says:

      I am unfair and my mind is darkened?? Really? You continue to attack me personally. I have given my opinions, you feel you have all the answers. At best you need to expand your mind to broader horizons than mainstream media. It could just be possible you are wrong.

      As I have said repeatedly, I let scripture be my guide, not a political party. I am at perfect peace with my part in this election.

      I’m not addressing anymore of your comments, they aren’t worth the effort. You obviously believe all the rhetoric fed your party and refuse to expand your horizons enough to verify the validity of what you are told to think. I’ve given you info you have never heard and that’s incredible to me because it’s all available to anyone who wants to seek truth.

  12. ajc says:

    I bet you get your truth from fox news. I am not attacking you personally, I am questioning the things you say because they just don’t line up with reality. Attacking Obama who has done so much for the poor and middle class and is a decent man with a decent lifestyle and family. No, I don’t have all the answers but I get where you are coming from. ajc Seriously, fox news.

  13. ajc says:

    Judy Let’s stop commenting and give this site a break. We have said it all and it goes nowhere. . I don’t buy what you say for a minute. And I don’t like what you say. I think that’s really it, I don’t like what you say. I heard the same stuff over and over. . ajc

  14. ajc says:

    Judy I apologize if you think I’m being rude to you. I don’t mean to, I just think Obama is a genuinely decent guy and president and normal. Something to be said for being normal these days and as abortion has been going on for so long (since the 1st century), I think it is unfair to blame him for it. And really as you know it is the battle cry of all the pseudo believers on television and in the pulpits that want their man in because he protects their interests (money). ajc

    • Judy says:

      I completely agree, yes we should stop posting. And yes, I think you have been rather rude, making judgements where you have no basis on my personal character and person.

  15. ajc says:

    good last comment to just judging you by your words

    • Judy says:

      Psalm 122:6-9: “Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: ‘May those who love you be secure. May there be peace within your walls and security within your citadels.’ For the sake of my brothers and friends, I will say, ‘Peace be within you.’ For the sake of the house of the LORD our God, I will seek your prosperity.”

      I’m just wondering tonight how Democrat “Christians” will spin the disgraceful actions of their “smart, intelligent, descent” hero president, who willfully threw Israel to the wolves today by his refusal to veto the UN resolution to divide Jerusalem and Israel.
      Shameful, absolutely shameful

      • ajc says:

        Judy I already know how republican pew sitters spin voting for Trump. Talk about disgraceful. Seen the latest “pretty” porn picture of Trump’s wife (you know the one who copied Michele Obama’s speech word for word). It’s so pretty, it belongs in Penthouse magazine or Playboy magazine. And as I can see you don’t get it, a lot of the prophecies about Jerusalem have already passed. We are in the new covenant now. You are and have been deceived. Hagee follower??? You are deceived and blind. This I know. ajc P.S. What are you, the KKK, National Enquirer, Jim Baker and Pat Robertson going to do when Trump doesn’t do the things he said he was going to do . He only said all those things to attract the ignorant and crazies. All he really is going to do is en act laws to protect the rich and help his buddies not pay taxes so he can look good. Much like he has done with the car company. He is a crude, crazy dictator. And you have the Jerusalem thing all wrong.

  16. ajc says:

    remove my comments as a courtesy please ajc

    • Judy says:

      There is so much wrong with your thinking. “New Testament, new covenant” believers negate the validity of Gods word in both Testaments and that’s just not Biblical.
      I suggest you read your Bible. Start with Romans. Clearly you have been taught incorrectly that the Old Testament isn’t relevant for today. That’s a fallacy.
      “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
      ‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭3:16-17‬

      You say we live under the new covenant. True, but what does that mean for you? The truth of that means the ceremonial law was fulfilled in Jesus. His birth, sinless life and death is paralleled in the Old Testament. He became the perfect Lamb sacrificed for the sin of all. Jew and Gentile. But Gods moral law was never negated. As the original post stated, personal conviction is not the same as Gods indisputable moral law.
      God did not tell us to forget about His Commandments, but gave us a new commandment -to love one another as Christ loved us. If I love my fellow man I would be remiss to suggest that people can promote, condone, participate in and encourage others to sin and still fall under an umbrella of grace.
      The New Testament clearly condemns lawlessness, and unrighteousness as well as immortality and references the scripture in the Old Testament to bring validity to the New.
      I’m choosing to ignore your other comments because they are redundant and of no importance, but you are incorrect that I’m deceived. I suggest you read 2 Peters 3. It ends with vs 17-18 “Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.”

      As far Israel is concerned, God calls them “the apple of his eye”
      ‭‭“Come, Zion! Escape, you who live in Daughter Babylon!” For this is what the Lord Almighty says: “After the Glorious One has sent me against the nations that have plundered you—for whoever touches you touches the apple of his eye— I will surely raise my hand against them so that their slaves will plunder them. Then you will know that the Lord Almighty has sent me. “Shout and be glad, Daughter Zion. For I am coming, and I will live among you,” declares the Lord. “Many nations will be joined with the Lord in that day and will become my people. I will live among you and you will know that the Lord Almighty has sent me to you.”
      ‭‭Zechariah‬ ‭2:7-11‬ ‭
      Further still clearly New Testament tells us his desire for them:
      “I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.”
      ‭‭Romans‬ ‭11:25-32‬ ‭

      I know you have been disillusioned by the fallacies you have seen and heard in organized religion, but please, get into the word of God and read, study and pray for guidance through the Holy Spirit.

  17. ajc says:

    I do and I have You mean well and are sincere but I have a very different take on what the new covenant means and brought. I know most churches teach the view you hold. As I am not good with words, I would ask you to listen to The destruction of 70 AD. Only because I get it but am not good at relating it. The guy who wrote it Jonathan Crosby from a church in Greenville South Carolina has a very strange and ugly attitude about women. He says it is scriptural. It is offensive , he actually talks to the men in the church and ignores the women. The reason this article is good is because he gleamed it from somewhere else. I can’t even listen to his voice because of his attitude towards women. Big on complete submission to the point he has classes on it. Some of his other stuff is strange too, probably because he was caught in adultery years ago. I’m not disillusioned, I am just sickened by what is in the churches. When I went to Calvary Assembly in Winter Park, Florida many years ago, I knew the tongues were bogus. I knew the being slain in the spirit was phony or emotional. The pastor took tithing money to start the charisma magazine. The magazine became his tool. The owner of the magazine, Steve Strang pushes politics and I think even put republican slanted literature in the lobby of a church I no longer go to. They were into shepherding which at the time I didn’t understand. Then finally Harthern was caught in adultery. The asst. pastor Alex Clattenberg did my baptism. He told us to have a big smile on our faces when we came out of the water as if we had a spiritual experience. They knew and appeared on some of the Christian t.v. shows. All phonies with no consciences. I knew it was bad news and finally quit going but it was confusing. Where are the real believers? These are mega businesses built on other people’s money. I regret every penny I gave these people and the people like them. That money should have gone to my dear family. Almost all of these pastors have committed adultery. Why is that?? People that don’t go to church seem to be able to be loyal to their wives. Maybe you shouldn’t bother with the Crosby thing. Might be a waste. He’s pretty offensive. I think anyone who now knows Christ is the big deal. Everything hinges on that in the new covenant. There is no longer any other criteria that matters. The jewish people deny Christ. Not all of them. Anyways the churches as they are called are polluted and empty with wolves at the helm (well most of them). All of my groups have been the same. Doesn’t it concern you that Jim Baker, Pat Robertson, Hagee, the KKK and the national Enquirer wanted Trump? I think it should that’s all. And I am concerned that the people that voted him in do not have any concern about his filthy mouth, his adultery and not paying people for their work. He did this to my friend’s nephew. Refused to pay him. Really hurt them financially.

    • Tongues are bogus uh? I live in China as you might know (or should) and I have seen Chinese come under the power of God and speak in tongues and they start saying things in English. Please don’t promote your ignorance because you want to be ignorant, some of us actually do see genuine signs and wonders.

  18. ajc says:

    Christopher They were bogus at my church My pastor would say the same 3 or 4 words over and over and then go out that very night and commit adultery with his girlfriend. Yes the tongues I have seen in the churches I have gone to have been bogus. I am not ignorant but unfortunately the tongues I have seen just aren’t real People are taken aside and taught how to say the same three words over and over. Yes, bogus. The tongues spoken of in the bible were so that people from many places could hear the good news in their language. There was a purpose for them. They were real. I have seen many people come under different powers in the church, most of it just emotionalism with no real purpose. God doesn’t put on displays that amount to nothing. I am glad you see signs and wonders. I don’t know what type of signs and wonders you see. I have never spoken in tongues even though I took French in high school and I don’t need to see signs and wonders. I know God is real. God has done miracles in my life but they were real and things needed. I don’t need emotionalism or highs like the stuff going on in many of the churches today that people find so exciting and entertaining. I need the God of King David. The emotionalism and tongues at my church were the same type you can see in the religions of the east. You know like that spirit that is at the bottom of the spine in the demonic religions of the east. Starts with a K. Can’t spell it. Sorry if I offended you but got out of that false stuff and sticking by what I know is the truth. ajc (Kundalini?)

  19. ajc says:

    Christopher what kind of signs and wonders??

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